Syndicates / Property Clubs - Property Investment Co-operative/Club

We all think that property is the place to be otherwise why be on this site.

We would all like to invest in property but lack either the expertise or shed loads of cash. What do we do, we go on courses or join property investment clubs and shell out large dollops of our limited funds to the suits. Been there done that and got my fingers burnt. However, I'm still interested in building a property portfolio as I firmly believe that property is a great medium to long term investment.

In the last 60 years property has doubled in value every 10 years. Given what we all know now should we have bought 5 years ago. Following on from that should we buy now for the next 5 years.

OK so lets pool our knowledge and resources and set up our own property club, negotiate our own finance deals and save some 4 to 6 percent of purchase costs by not paying finders fees, finance fees, club membership fees etc.

The initial thread for this came quite by chance as I was reading another thread within this main category, under How Good is this Course. At the end were some remarks about why not unite and approach developers direct.

Excellent idea but needs careful thought. Dan from Landlord Trader is also looking into this as this site can provide the properties to invest in.

May I suggest we look at 2 types of investment. The first based on those with the necessary funds to club together to buy a property each as a job lot within a single development. Secondly for those with more limited funds to form some sort of co-op to pool funds and purchase single properties for redevelopment for sale/remortgage on completion.

A little about me. First bought 2 years ago, overpriced and overvalued rental projections on an apartment in York. This year with a little more knowledge 5 BTLs for little to no money down using gifted deposits and 87 percent mortgages to provide cash back to cover most of the buying costs. By the way if you are experiencing financial problems with your existing properties contact me as I have a contact who buys these.

Brian

Brian,

This is a fantastic ides: count me in.

Regards, PO

I would be very interested in this idea.Please keep this thread updated

Im interested!

Thanks for starting the thread. So what is the next step Brian?

With enough people who are serious about starting a property portfolio it certainly shouldnt be too hard.

I think the first thing we must do is arrange a meeting point for those interrested in the project.I live in North Yorkshire I would be prepared to drive lets say an hour or so to meet somewhere.

Should we not share with others what we have to invest and what we can bring to the club?

Yes i am very KEEN on this . i think it will work if we all do our ground work right in our own areas. i have done this sort of thing in the past and it works well as long as we all agree how it is to be done. when do we get contact numbers etc.

my number is 01969623054 evenings are best.

There would appear to be the nucleus of a property building empire out there judging by the initial response.

Many thanks for your interest and support. Now the difficult bit in turning enthusiasm into reality.

Frank, to answer your whats the next step query. I would suggest an exchange of ideas and contact details. This would give the geographical location of interested parties. From this we could arrange to take up Nicks point and arrange regional meets. The aim here to try to get a concensus of opinion and the type of investment we are individually interested in and more to the point what individuals can afford to do.

David would you be willing to share the background to your previous experience in this matter.

There are many ideas on how to build a property portfolio. May I suggest we could be looking at two areas, namely rental income from buy to lets individually owned and profits from a co-op redevelopment scheme.

If anybody has an alternative idea lets hear it.

My contact details: tel home 01254 660012, Blackburn, Lancashire. Age 60 semi retired. Currently consolidating a buy to let portfolio of 6 properties (carpets etc incl. letting). For the immediate future I want to raise capital for reinvestment in buy to lets.

May be able to bring to the table solicitors able to handle gifted deposits for cheap buy to let purchases and a financial advisor able to assist in bridging finance and development capital.

As a first step an exchange of contact details and aspirations would seem appropriate. The next step could be to arrange regional meetings. Brian

You might want to try out this free offer from Ranjan Bhattacharya at www.YourPropertyEmpire.com. He is offering a 7 part intro to the property market as well as promoting his email course, which from the Mail on Sunday today is on offer at 97 GBP. Might try this myself. I have no gain from this so take it as it comes. Brian

Heres a couple of ideas.....

One or two of you should own/run the club, have a team of people that get the deals from the developers, you all make 1% per property, but make it easy for the investors, make it so theres NOTHING to pay upfront, not even your 1% fee.

The deals should come with a little cashback, which covers ALL fee's (including yours), so you get your money at the end of the deal when we get our cashback.

Then people like me would actually be able to start my portfolio, and if we got cashback, you would get your 1% fee aswel, if you could get deals like that, i would be buying on every development you had availibe.

Think about ALL buyers needs, and it will be a success.

Thanks

Matt

HI , Brian my mobile number is 07976 755546 you can phone or text. we need enough people to put deposits together all putting in etc. then we need them to put in each month until we have first property paid for or until we can draw from it. the more people we have the cheaper it is for all and less risk etc , we did ok last time . ring or text Brian and we will talk.

Do you think its a possibility to give people like me deals with no cash upfront at all?

Matt

Matthew, As far as I am aware there will always be an upfront cost. Inspite of the claims of no money down deals you will still need cash for the valuer 300-350, a deposit for your solicitor 300-1000 and travelling cash to see the property. It is unlikely that you would be able to participate in a joint venture with the necessary cash behind you.

Possibly the best would be via a co-op where members make a regular monthly subscription from wages, savings etc. Once the deposit and upfront costs are met the property is bought and funding sought for the purchase. Brian

Hi Brian

I thought that you were creating something a bit different, i am mistaken.

Other clubs do deals where you dont pay any valuer fee's, legal fee's, solicior fee's, or broker fee's, and no deposit, but they charge a fee of around 2%, thats the point that messes me up.

I was hoping your idea was going to cut all upfront fee's.

Thanks

Matt

Nick Bentley, what exactly did you have in mind when you thought of this?

10 people that helped each other by finding developments?

Cheers

Matt

Matthew, I do not understand your point. If you buy something you need money. This applies to property as much as anything else.

Can you afford a monthly subscription? If so a co-op will be the answer. If you have a lump sum then individual ownership is possible. If you have no cash or income you will not be able to buy property. Simply put the men in suits want to see that you can make the mortgage payments. Regards Brian

Well said Brian, If we do it we need to do it right, and Matthew if you look close at these no money upfront jobs etc , you will see most of them Fail or make no money.

Hi guys

Can i afford the monthly subscription? What monthly supscription are you talking about?

Your right, you cant buy things with no money, but thats where you use other peoples money, hence why a mortgage exists, loans exist, credit cards exist, so im not sure of your point there.

Im not sure how a off-plan property can "fail", as it depends on what your plan/strategy is, its just another property, if you find geniune investment clubs, they do make money yes.

I am not sure what you guys are trying to do to be honest, its the developer that over values the properties, not the investment clubs, so you would be negotiating with the developers just like the hundreds of other clubs, all i was trying to say was maybe you could have a "unique" club that does not charge a 2%/3% finders fee.

Thanks

Matt

WYPIIWYGO

What you put in is what you get out!

Thats not factual Simon.

I have an idea, if you guys are going to start a club, why not become the developers yourselves, and build the apartments/houses, and sell straight to customers?

Theres great money in self build if done right.

Matt

Matt, yes you are right about self build. There is a considerable profit margin potential BUT there are a number of pitfalls.

Experience Proximity to site for control Large set up costs for land and kit home purchase Specialist mortgage lenders and meeting their criteria Planning permission Lengthy build time possibly 2 years from concept to completion. High finance costs

This type of build is generally for the individual self builder not a co-op or club. Not impossible but problematic. What we need is short time builds and quick profits. In other words buy below market value, improve and sell or rent within a short time frame.

Matthew Holland sorry i didnt get back to you straight away.

What I orignally meant was to get a group of people together that were serious about investing in property about ten or so. We could then all go to a develloper to bulk buy.This would give us buying power and allow us to get a big discount(this is what the Clubs do).

We could then deal with a broker who specialises in no deposit deals(85% of value not price)the discount would then pay the deposit. All we would be left with would be the legals and broker fee etc.The big saving would be on the finders fee which we wouldnd pay because we have done the deal ourselves.

I predict needing about £2000-3000 starting money.This would allow for a couple of months where you might have to pay your mortgage if you were left a month or two without a tennant.

Thanks Nick

That sounds good, your right, its there finders fees that sting you in the butt! I like this idea, for me, i will have to save the 2k/3k or get a credit card (uh oh lol).

No deposit, and no finders fee, would work pretty good, as i know a mortgage broker that does not charge a fee, and i can pay the solicior fee.

It would be good if you guys can make it happen without finders fees!

Thanks

Matt

hi i'd be bang up for this idea,but not in the uk

pooling our money to buy off plan overseas makes much more sense to me

any one else?

The point I'm trying to make Matt is that you cant just jump in and buy property without a bean! You have to have some capital, arrangement fees, deposits, solicitor fees, surveyors fees, stamp duty etc etc. You sound like you want everything for nothing!!

And the point i have made is that yes, you can buy property with your deposit, legal fee's, valuation fee's, mortgage fee's, and stamp duty paid, most property investment clubs do this.

The point i was also making was that this idea of a property investment club could be the same as the others as in all your fee's are paid for you, but this club could do it without a finders fee and be unique.

I know what can and cant be done Simon so im not sure why you needed to jump in at me like that.

Matt

But Matt, I dont understand how you expect to get a property with nothing? I would love that! If the mortgage payments were covered by the rent I would have about 50 properties by now if that was the case!

You really think you can get BMV properties, pay no finders fees, legal fees, lenders fees, deposits and still reap the profits from an investment venture with other guys who WILL put money in?

I'm in!

Hi Guys, this discussion seems to be getting bogged down in whether you can buy property for the genuine no money down deals advertised or not. Consider this, if you could would there be any property left to buy for us little guys. There will always be some money required upfront. If you use a gifted deposit you still have to put the deposit upfront. This is paid by way of a bridging loan which is refunded on completion. This is necessary as Mortgage lenders will only do 85 percent LTV, (max 87) for a buy to let. What we are looking for is 85 percent of the value not of the discounted price. The clever part is arranging a discount greater than 15 percent. Taking an 85/87 percent mortgage and using the difference between these percentages to repay upfront costs, solicitors, stamp duty, valuer, broker, bridging finance, arrangement fees etc. This is only paid back to the buyer on completion of the contract.

Again (you seem a little slow), please read this carefully as i dont want to keep saying the same thing over and over again.

YES!!! You CAN buy off-plan propertys with your legal fees, solicitor fees, broker fees, and deposit paid, BUT they charge a finders fee, thats the only charge.

Again......i was thinking this club could do the same as others, but without the finders fee.

I am not "expecting" to buy a property with nothing, what i have been saying over and over is that im wondering if this club will not charge a finders fee, if they dont, then great! If they do, then i will save up.

LOL - wow

Matt

Hi Brian

The deposit is not always paid upfront, you just need to find a "suitable" solicitor to handle the purchase, he will basically say the deposit has been paid (when it hasnt), and then you dont need a bridging loan.

Thanks

Matt

Busy this morning. Spoke to a couple of contributors last evening. As a result have come up with an idea for consideration.

In outline: A syndicate of 10 or more members formed into a limited company with a legal agreement for protection. An initial cash inject of say 1000 pounds per member with a monthly subscription of say 100 pounds.

Purchase quality buy to let properties for rental. Build the portfolio as funds allow by reinvesting income.

Payment from bank account on 2 signatures with statements circulated monthly.

This syndicate would be on a trust basis. Members with relevant experience to advise/handle such items as legals/banking/property/website Geographical proximity of members should not be a problem.

This would be a syndicate geared initially to build a property portfolio with no draw down of dividends for say 2 years.

One potential member is an estate agent which would give us a good start for properties in a particular location.

Another possibility is to take up Christophers suggestion and look abroad. Possibly somewhere where we could rent for the season to a holiday company leaving out of season for syndicate members. What about Bulgaria it offers both Summer & Winter venues ?

Your thoughts please and also how do we attract sufficient reliable members.

Matt, please let me have details of your solicitors. This will prove of benefit to the syndicate. Brian

Dont even bother to start down the route of insulting or patronising me Matt!! I already know what you WANT! Whether you can get it Matt....is another point!

I'll tell you what, lets start a club for investing in BMV properties. I'll look for these properties, pay for all your legal, mortgage and surveyors fees...I'll even pay your deposit too cause I'm such a nice guy. I also wont charge you any finders fees....I think its a winner Matt. You want to join?

Hi Brian,

I've had a bad experience with Bulgaria as you may want to check out on the overseas forum. I also dont believe they will be in the EU by 2007 as a lot of people suggest. But thats not to say it wouldnt be a good move.

I suggest you stick to the U.K!

What sort of priced properties are you looking at by the way? I'm quite interested in knowing a lot more about the ins & outs, because as Matt says...I'm a little slow;-)

Cheers

Simon

I wasnt patronising, after asking the same thing 3/4 times, i thought your either a little slow in understanding, or you were purposly trying to cause an arguement in an innocent thread.

Do i want something for nothing, yes, why wouldnt i?

Would i join your club with all those benefits, yes, why wouldnt i? That was just adding fuel to the fire Simon, well done.

I dont have any problems here, all i simply said was what other clubs did and can we match that and forget the finders fees.

Matt

Hi guys,

Well there certainly seems to be some interest in starting a co-op of some sort. I spoke with my directors last week who are interested in your idea and mentioned that it could work in line with a new property agency that they are establishing. Right… a lengthy post coming up!

The real key is for you decide whether it is a property club or a syndicate/fund that you really want.

Property Club

Landlord Trader could facilitate the set-up, aid in the developing of a common strategy, offer a secretariat role, would sort out all admin and most importantly source the deals and bargain on your behalf.

If we did follow this venture up, first of all we would need to establish that more than 15-20 people would take it up. Clearly approaching a developer and asking for a discount on 10 units will hold more water than a discount on 2-3 units. That’s common sense. We might even consider a consensus from our own database of investors to test the water.

We would ask for an annual subscription fee to the ‘club’ paid upfront from the members, in the region of £1,500. This would cover all administrative costs and would also take most of the hassle away from members. Out of interest, do most of you consider this sum to be reasonable? We would look to employ a full-time member of staff on this, which is no light undertaking, hence the subscription charge.

The directors have strong links into developers in particular as well as other investors and would be able to exploit bulk buying to see genuine discounts on deals. The founders of LandlordTrader.co.uk have strong backgrounds in property investment and between the two key individuals have invested in excess of £250m into property in the past 4 years on behalf of clients and on their own accounts.

Residential Fund

The directors are currently looking to start a residential property fund (run through an FSA regulated company) which will have a minimum initial investment of around £100k per investor. Setting-up funds is something that the directors have experience in. You would need speak to an IFA about this fund as I/ we are not allowed under FSA regulation to promote financial products.

In the case of a fund, there is an annual management fee that is taken from the income derived from the assets.

Summary

We feel that given our experience in purchasing close to 200 properties over the last two years will prove helpful in the case of both the Property Club and Residential Fund.

For those who don’t want the hassles of a property investment and want to be very passive investors, then a fund would be your best option. However, looking at the threads, this probably isn’t the case and you would rather have a slightly more involved capacity.

From the threads I also get the impression that you are swaying towards offplan opportunities rather than tenanted old stock. The directors pointed out that you perhaps should not rule out buying portfolios of income producing assets (tenanted properties) with strong yields (8%+) as in the past they have managed to negotiate discounts that allowed minimal investment and sometimes no money down.

Please let me know your thoughts on email so that it’s easier for me to keep track of interested parties and email addresses, at dan.haysom@landlordtrader.co.uk and I will liaise with the directors accordingly.

All the best, Dan

Hi, Brian i also feel we should stick to the UK market for now and in areas that we know. i do agree with Dan that we should also look at tenanted property in some areas these are little gold mines. ( but must be in areas that other members know , or we may just buy a something a landlord is trying to off load ) not keen on a property Fund , we could look after it our selfs . keep us all upto date please, i feel this could work with the right people .

Matt

These other clubs that you mention, have you checked that the property that they find is below market value. This is the main key to successfull property investment. You get nothing for nothing in this business, if they are paying all of the fees and deposit, and bearing in mind that the deposit on a 100k property will likely be 15k, it sounds too good to be true, or are you suggesting that the solicitor will be prepared to risk being struck off by saying something that isn't true. Of course I don't know which clubs you are refering to but my feeling is that the property is probably way over priced, will it value up for mortgage purposes? If you are considering this route then I would again advise you to check thoroughly and then check again. Due diligence, caveat emptor are the phrases that spring to mind. John B

Gentlemen (Ladies?), If we cannot discuss this idea without bickering,what chance do we have to buy and sell properties without arguments. Perhaps we could all get together and discuss the possibilities of ALL the ideas that are being discussed? I live in France,so I would require some notice,but I would be willing to hire a room/venue somewhere so we can get together in the very near future.Any takers?

Nice one Simon fully agree.

At the moment I am trying to guage the level of interest and am collecting names and phone numbers of suitably motivated people.

The general centre of gravity of those potential members who have contacted me appears to be a broad swathe across the north of England from Newcasle down to Hull and across to Lancashire.

Before we go nap on a meeting could any potential members who have not yet contacted me give me a call any evening this week on 01254 660012. If any of you guys know a friend who would be suitable let me know.

Hi Brian

Yes, i stated most were overpriced in the other thread, they use the discount as the gifted deposit.

Thanks

Matt

I'm not sure whether it would be valuable enough to you but I could arrange for a new clubs/syndicates section to be added to the Landlord Trader Forum, in this bit (http://www.landlordtrader.co.uk/forums.php) rather than under General.

Perhaps we could also have specific folders within that for an Overseas syndicate, UK tenanted syndicate, Offplan syndicate, No-money-down syndicate, etc.

Thinking off the top of my head, Landlord Trader could also build in a secure section into the forum where the syndicate could discuss opportunities without telling the world about it!! You could nominate one person who would tell me who exactly is allowed access into that secure area.

This secure area might take a couple of weeks to install and perhaps Landlord Trader might have to take either a token start up fee for web design time but it would give you a central place to throw ideas and opportunities into the pot rather than organising regular meetings across the UK, etc.

Any thoughts?

Dan

Great ideas Dan!!!

Very good idea!!

Definitely Dan.

Please see new forum added - "Synidicates / Property Clubs"

Will Foot

so no ones interested in buying overseas then?

personally i can't see the point in buying large stocks of a declining market in the uk,with no chance of capital gains for the next 8-10 years.

makes much more sense to me to build up equity in places like germany for example whose market is way under valued and you can get yields of 10% all day long,it wouldn't take long to build up a decent portfolio with eurozone rates as low as they are.Then come back to the uk market when the cycle turns again.

also there are some great off plan deals offered abroad where we could club together to fund the deposit and flip the property when completed or hand it over to a lettings agent or there are deals where you get guaranteed rental

i'm not talking about bulgaria cos,i wouldn't invest there either simon nor spain or france. How about dubai? you'd have no probs selling once the apartment was built, or auckland? "viceroy park" has a execent offer where a rental guarantee is in place for 18 years, or "ready 2 rents land" deals or turkey where i have just missed the deadline for a cracking deal from "barfa sim" whereas the the first phase of apartments villas were being sold as an early bird opportunity where if you pay 100% of the price upfront instead of the usuall stage payments after 2 years you get 80% of the cost back london solicitors and your money secured against land incase the developer went bust and you were guaranteed to get your money back, this is because of th e high IR rates in turkey about 14%

so there are some great off plan deals around all of these in high capital growth areas

perhaps the syndicate could have a branch wher we club together for these deposits in these sort of areas,especially germany and you can definately count me in!

totally agree Chris!!

In Cyprus for example in the north properties are expected to go up for the next 5 years. Saw a program on the area last night.I think the way this investment/co-operative club is forming already we will have an investement in all types of property. Im getting quite excited!!!

With the help of Dan and the back up of this site we should go far with this club. I still think we need to appoint a person to take some sort of control.

horses for courses! i respect your opinions guys but ill stick with the UK.

the rent control regime in Germany worries me as it will always hold back prices, the declining population and fragile economy is a concern. cyprus i have not looked into in any detail but it does seem as though there could be a bubble brewing - im not sure though as i don't know enough.

personally i would only be interested with UK. i know what im buying and i can analyse investments better.

anyway this is just what we want isn't it?

more clubs/ syndicates tailored to our individual investment appetites.

tom

Hi all,

I agree with Tom on Germany, I live here and have heard you need about between 20% & 30% deposits and the added costs puts me off totally. Take a look at this website of buying in Germany?

http://www.overseasrealestate.co.uk/Buying_Guides/german_property/german_property.html

Cheers

Simon

Brian,

Thank you for taking the time to speak with me today. In such a short time I learned so much! In principle I'm keen on the property syndicate.

Malik

Hi guys,

This is an exploratory post for a meeting for those interested in syndicates.

Landlord Trader is having a networking event on Monday the 19th September in London. The last event we held was very well received and we had a good turnout of around 100 investors. We now have a database double that from before so we do expect an even stronger turnout in September.

Aside from being a great networking opportunity, we would like to propose that half an hour or an hour before the actual event at around 6.30pm or 7pm, we hold a small gathering of those interested in these syndicates to get you all (or at least some of you) in the same place talking about the same thing.

If you wanted, we could also bring in an accountant who could talk to you about the logistics of setting up the syndicate?

Please let me know if either of these 2 points would be of serious interest on dan.haysom@landlordtrader.co.uk. If we can get 15-20 people in agreement, I will make the necessary arrangements to get it sorted.

Thanks,

Dan Landlord Trader

Hi All !

Blimey what a long thread. That'll teach me for not logging in for a while.

Firstly I'm very interested in the above proposal.

My situation is as basically as follows :-

Started investing in property 18 months ago. 3 BTL's (...and counting !)( one traditional purchse - two off plan ) 100% occupancy rate. (to professional tennants) Good rapport with local agents / solicitors / mortgage advisors. Local area of knowledge : Hertfordshire Managing agents : None Job : Commercial Pilot (Often available during the day to view / chase up leads. Arrange finance etc..) Area of interest : Financial analysis. New markets. Limited knowledge (above average) of : Tax, Capital gains, corporations. - Access to financial director of large multinational company for advice. 5 - 10 year goal : Financial Freedom.

Interested in forming / joining a syndicate / club for the following reasons :- 1) Enhanced purchasing power (larger investments / bulk discounts on new developments). 2) Spread the risk of areas on unknown experience (i.e. HMO's, DHSS, foreign, north of england. 3) Faster means of achieving financial freedom ?

Would be able to meet up at the LLT meeting on 19th Sept.

Regards,

FM

P.S. A few more ideas...

I also work with a chap who is a chartered accountant and has knowledge of setting up companies. If I could get him interested in joining he may be persuaded to do the accounts for nothing. Also his knowledge of off shore accounting and tax may prove invaluable, as I had a thought that perhaps if a syndicate were to be set up then why not base the company in a tax haven ? Off shore bank accounts, etc... We would be liable for some tax for the property in the UK but not for all the foreign property.

The way I see this working is that perhaps a mix of investments would provide a better balance of capital growth, rental income and short term "flipping" of property to create more capital for further investment. Separate companies for each business type provide better tax advantages. ( The IR treat property developers differently to property investors ) Also we could run our own management company which collects the rent and takes a percentage. (Tax advantage). Same goes for a maintenance company.

I think the syndicate should put in a slightly larger lump sum at the start and there should be no monthly subs, as collecting this money could be problematic (i.e. what happens if one person stops paying in / is late paying / increases in subs etc...) It would just be easier I think - especially with a large number of people involved. Also it sorts out the time wasters from the serious investors.

The syndicate should have a constitution and we all need to agree the goals at the start. What are everyones goals....? 1) To re-invest all the money and grow a large portfolio as quickly as possible but have no passive income for the next 20 years. 2) To build the portfolio more slowly with an increasing passive income for all the members - With a bias towards getting the initial investment back reasonably soon. Or 3) To build the portfolio as quickly as possible with no passive member income for the next 5 - 10 years and then start to draw a slowly increasing income for all the members whilst very slowly increasing the portfolio size with the remaining funds ? I'm 35 but I'm guessing that all our ages will range considerably (up to and over 60 years of age) And with this age range our own personal strategy will vary too.

There should be an exit strategy for all members and if someone leaves then we should vote if we want to replace that member with someone else or buy them out with reserved funds etc... What will they get back out of the investment and how soon ? What happens if a member is knocked down crossing the road ? ....Hmmmm many things to decide and think about.

With regard to discussing opportunities and secure areas on the internet - I personally don't think we need it, as once the group is established all we need to do is form a group email (easy enough on outlook) and just email "PropertyClubmembers" and 'bang' off goes the email to one and all and we can just reply to each other that way. Much less hassle. Should be reliable too.

WRT foreign markets, it's a bit of a minefield sometimes, as some require 30% deposits, sometimes the "stamp duty" (buying / selling fees) can be over 10% meaning you need to make at least 20% profit before you start - then you have foreign and UK capital gains tax (on the sale) on top of that. Letting agents can charge up to 20% + tax (US / Florida springs to mind) If it's a holiday rental then you need to add in charges for bills, TV, laundering sheets and cleaning every week or two. Local taxes and as in the case of France - the Wealth tax (which you pay on the square footage of the property every year) and Spain - Land Grabbing ! None of which they mention in their glossy brochures.... and any one of which can make what looks like your fantastic investment turn into a money draining liability. Sorry to finish on a negative note. I'm just making the point that careful carful scrutiny needs to be involved (I know I'm teaching some of you to suck eggs - sorry.)

Having said all that - I never rule anything out.

My preference would be initially towards some cheaper self managed "Cash Cows" in the UK, some off plan investents (UK or elsewhere) to flog on to generate more capital for more cash cows. And a mix of higher risk properties (possibly foreign). I am a bit shy of foreign holiday rentals (as the hidden costs are often prohibitive). I would prefer to re invest the majority of the profits for the first 5 years and then start to draw a small income after that.

Cheers,

Funky.

Hi guys,

A quick update.

Our Networking Evening will now take place in OCTOBER, rather than Monday 19th September. Apologies to those who have already booked it in, but we have been forced to change the date.

Please note that the property syndicate 'gathering' will remain integrated into the networking evening.

We will update all LT users by email when we have fixed another date for this event.

Best regards,

Dan Landlord Trader

Hi . Some good ideas in that post funky me . how is all this going we seem to be alot of posting but no action as yet chaps.

I was hoping that Landlord Trader were going to advertise the forum in the next newsletter. This way we would get a larger potential membership/syndicate.

At present there are too few responding and the geographical split is too wide.

Hi

Christopher Lee kindly reported about our 80% Cash Back offer on our Oasis Village development Bodrum Turkey, we would like to comment to correct one point, we still have Villas and Apartments for sale via this very popular offer, secondly Oasis village is now part of a larger development called SANDY BAY GOLF RESORT with a Jack Nicklaus designed 18 hole golf course, the whole development set in 400 acres.

Hi Guys, have i lost this thread? has it died? or is it still serious, from what I have read so far I will be very interested.

Steve, charliewolfuk@yahoo.co.uk

private investor (9 houses)

at the risk of causing a diversion... Ian Simpson posted that the Barfa Sim development is still available. Does this include the cash back 2 year deal? Also, can he tell us of his involvement.

I am interested in the idea of a property club that could spread the risk in this type of off plan development.

Gents, two things. I'm new to this site and have printed out your comments to read through later (14 pages). I'm interested in forming / joining a property syndicate so that's the good news. The bad news is that I've been contributing to a thread on singingpig about Barfa-Sim. I put a deposit down several months ago. Over the last 2-3 days there has been some great work from several contributors and we now have a much better idea about the company. It's looking very bad. On the plus side, the deposits were sent to their solicitors and they're one of the top overseas lawyers so the money should be safe. Caveat Emptor.

Hi Guys - reading through some of your posts - our investment opportunities may be of interest to you. Aramis Investments (UK) Ltd specialise in Low Deposit Investment Properties with Guaranteed Rental Schemes, in Spain. Most properties require deposits of up to 40%-50% - we require a 10% deposit, sometimes less - in fact Santa Paula opportunities require 7% deposit. The purchase price of approximately €200,000 is well below market value - we anticipated it to be €240,000 last weeks bank valuation came in at €268,000. The annual growth in the regions values rose 17.3% last year. So whether you are looking to flip the asset straight away, capitalise from the high rental yield or the overall capital growth they represent a great investment opportunity. By all means contact me for further information - Charles Sylvanus-Jones csjones@aramisinvesmtents.co.uk

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Regards

Charlie

Does anyone know any more about Barfa-sim and the sandy bay gold and beach resort?

Sorry guys buy very new to this. But just come back from Bodrum and the Barfa part of Barfa-sim seem very professional and have built some nice properties, but now a bit worried about investing with the Sim connection. How do i get to the thread about Barfa sim listed above?

we can set up no money down portfolio for anyone with 1 or more properties by leveraging the equity we are also setting up a TV channel dedicated to sale and purchase and finance of real estate which will be on 24/7 and subscribed all over the world anyone intrested should get in touch with us by mail on kcmedia2000@yahoo.co.uk

Hi Sam,

Can you please give a little more details about the TV channel you are talking about.

Regards, Malik

I guess not...

Regards, Malik

I completely missed this thread previously. Dunno how that happened (but I tend to skip the lengthy threads to read at a later date when I have more time, but we never have enough time these days !) What I wanted to say is that I think it's a great idea to set up the Syndicate, it will leverage greater buying power (as mentioned previously) and I also agree with looking overseas rather than the UK market. Cashback deals are also an option to churn funds in and out of the club. Has any dates to get together to discuss been set-up yet ?

Hi I've also just read the thread and obviously mised whats been goin on. I would like to now if there are any meetings set up? I'd like to be involved.

To All Members,

Landlord Trader Mortgages, will of course be available for any mortgage and advice and I suspect special rates will be shown to all Syndicate members.

http://www.landlordtrader.co.uk/lt_mortgages.html

Dan Haysom Landlord Trader Team

Hi Guys Did this thing ever get off the ground. We could be intertested. We currently have 3 buy to lets in the Uk (Staffordshire). We have moved to Ireland and sold my residential Property in the UK. We are therefore looking to re invest the profit into more BTL's. What are you looking for memmbers to bring to the group assuming this is still happening. Regards Mark and Karen

Hi - there seems to have been a lot of interest last year (when I wasn't signed up).

Did anything ever come of this and who's the person to contact about the club/syndicate?

cheers Matthew

Hi Everybody,

Good to see lots of talk about Turkey coming up. The Reality Group is a UK based Turkish land and development consultancy. We enable individuals to become developers in Turkey, thereby enjoying the developer's share of the profits. We are fee based, thus removing the associated pitfalls of commission based agents. We also operate nationally in Turkey, including retail and residential projects in Istanbul. We offer our clients the opportunity to take advantage of the Turkish property boom in the safest and most profitable way and have 14 years of direct experience in Turkey. We would love to talk to anyone who sees Turkey as a place to invest, and are happy to travel to you to meet and discuss what we do and how it works. For a full brochure on what we do in Turkey, contact me, Andy Pyke, on 01622-764200 or andy@reality.eu.com. Also, look out for an article on us in the Financial Times April 22nd.

Apologies if I am hijacking this thread but I am looking to get a group of people together who might be interested in pooling their resources to invest in the Polish property market.

At the moment it's a very informal discussion group about the mechanics of setting up such a "club" and where best to target our resources.

If you think you would like to join then please email me at info@spiritusagency.com

Marek

Hi Guys,

I am new to this forum but would be very interested in joining the club. I have some money to invest, just 2 or 3 thousand and have one btl already in manchester. I own my own property in London. Is the meeting in October still happening as I would very much like to come along? Thanks in advance.

Nick Goodson

Hi All,

Again - new to the forum, but would love to know how the idea for a property club panned out?

I am planning to devote a fair amount of my disposable income / time to property in the near future, initially looking to purchase off-plan properties with a view to re-selling upon completion. I feel this is the best method of building a capital reserve. Then begin buying BTL properties for building residual income utilising the capital. I really only have a couple of grand right now and would really appreciate any help / advice / guidance anyone would be willing to share with me..

James

sorry, forgot to mention, I'd be very interested in the property club if it materialised - i'm based in Scotland - Ayrshire

James

Hello there, new to forum, looking at investing property but... only got limited funds to start up 2000 - 4000 max

any help and suggestions would be gratefully received.

Anyone had any dealings with Challenor Property, thinking of attending their 'free' seminar, is this to get you through door and then hit you with the big sell ?

regards

Steve Sadler

Hi First post having just registered recently.Trawled through most of the threads(sore eyes)and the really exciting one jumps out re:property club.After studying everything I could lay hands on for over a year I'm currently purchasing my first BTL in Montrose with expected yield of 8%.The problem is I can't build any kind of portfolio if I have to finance everything.Still have access to some funds but could only use it as joining fee at the moment.Someone please help. Dave

Hi, just joined up also, very interested in this as well. Are people still allowed join up, whats the story?

Hi

This definately is becoming a long thread!!!!

Has this property club/syndicate actually got off the ground yet, seems to be a lot of talking going on.

Any way i am hoping to form a syndicate with like minded individuals.

I am more in the favour of investing in off plan overseas properties, because the returns are much greater than the UK. Also from personal experience i have made more from these investments, you can make more when you buy and sell off plan compared to rental investments.

I setup a mini syndicate (3 investors, if you can call it that) about 18 months ago and bought several off plan overseas properties, and we have managed to achieve a return of 80% in this time. I must add that it was the easiest money i have ever made, just invested money, signed contracts, sat back and let the developers do all the hard work and feel the stress. Where in the uk can you do this.

You will always make more money on capital appreciation compared to returns on rental (depending on the market you invest in).

To cut to the chase, i am proposing to setup a syndicate that primarily invests in off plan overseas properties, the return on investment will be 50-80% over a 3 year period.

Minimum investment would be £15000, anything less would just not be worth while for anybody.

For further information or for any comments please contact crystalpropertysyndicates@googlemail.com

If anyone is interested in BMV 15-25% please let me know. You can email me on firsttimebuyerz@aol.com as i do not get to check this thread that much. I differ from most companies as all my deals have to stack up and in most cases only charge 1%. This usually includes your brokers, legals paid.

ok

is this club up and running? Tell me more i'm very interested

I've been working on something for 18 months gathering as much info legal and offerings. The idea came to me as I was sick to death being a source of income and being taken to the cleaners by so-called "how to" gurus. I knew there was a market and others like me would like to club together - However I never knew anything about this forum.

The site is exactly this but it has various strategies for investors and a a few twists that make it unique.

Hi there Is this thread still running as i would be intrested in making a syndicate/co-op or club if so email me at leedamians@yahoo.co.uk Thanks Damian

Hi, can anybody please tell me what happened with the syndicate? I would be interested in any news. Could anybody please advise on companies such as Buytolet4less, Property For Life etc. and whether they have good (or bad)experiences. I've bought properties independently and not through a company as yet so am interested in the best ways of building up my portfolio.

Beware, it will turn into the same as you are all trying to avoid,believe me i have built up a portfolio running into 8 figures in the last 4 years,and remember a fool and his/her money........ Too long in the tooth for all this

I am also interested.

Saf. Ali 07974650751 easy4life@gmail.com Impartial Mortgage Advice & property investor