General (main property discussion here) - Convert a house into flats

I am looking into converting a house into flats. Can anyone tell me what difficulties I might find! And the best way to tackle them?

David Mesmin

Hi David,

Doing just that myself at the moment. Best advise is contact a good architect as he will have to draw before and after plans, and also make allowances for fire protection and noise control.

Both of the fire and noise can be done above the ceiling under the floor boards. Also you will have to provide a means of escape for both flats at least 2 ways of escaping front and back.

Plumbing will need splitting so will electrics and gas, ive just converted a large end terrace into 2 flats and this as cost around 7K. Just to have another electrical supply in cost £800 another gas supply in cost £400. To split elctrics cost £1,400 to split plumbing including 2 combies cost £2,300. Thats just for starters if youir still keen then let me know and we can chat on the phone.

All the best

Alex M Oakhill Mortgage Services Ltd.

Flabbergasted! Definitely want to know more....

How have you found the service from your local authority? And how long has it taken so far?

David Mesmin

Alex M,

My email: mesmin52@yahoo.co.uk

Be careful re council tax. You will need communal areas to keep to 1 council tax on the whole property. self contained units in 1 building attract multiple c taxes. 1 council tax between say 4 units allows u to charge lower than average rents in the area and still delivers good margins legally while keeping the proprty full and void periods down. Also be aware of min room sizes. I find a good demand for 1 bed 1 lounge 1 kitchen, 1 bathroom units for singles/young professionals who can't afford to buy as 1st timers. Overall yields are still v good cf to national averages. Also if PP can be got on whole building future potential exists for creating mangement co. to run the block and sell off individual units at good margins. PP is required to convert and some local authorities have blocked this type of development. Keep electiric supply as individual to whole house and split internally to individual unit with either coin meter or pre pay to ease management. Heating is easier via storage heaters on Econ 7 and water heaters to heat instantly rather than installing combis. Grant aid may be available to convert from some LAs depending on local property supply. You will need to pay up front and claim back. Also be aware of HMO legislation coming in next year on how many flats in 1 house. Large old Victorian houses lend nicely to 4/5 per house if u can find them!Fire doors/escapes and sound proofing will be essential. as will emergency lighting/ breakglass points/ escapes front and rear and through windows ( check with LA) e mail if u want more info. G.

Sound very expensive! The plan was to split into two flats, create seperate entrances, split the deeds and sell one or both of them, depnding on capital and tax. I would like to keep one (at least) as a buy to let! But still want to be able to move on to the next project.

This is where i don't have a clue. Should i use a roll over (not entirely sure what this means)on the first property to start another? Am I tryin to do too many things at once here?

Mesmin

Alex and Gary,

Not that I mean to jump on the band wagon here but I'm also looking to do a flat conversion... I've met with both the Planning and Building regulation officer and they're happy enough with my design/plans. Is there any chance you could email me at Michael.101970@lycos.co.uk so I could ask you a couple of questions on the splitting of the freehold title into two leasehold and some other odds and sods.

Thanks

Michael Jose

Alex & David,

I'm an architectural technician based in London, and have been providing architectural services since the 1970's. I guess the initial item with converting houses into flats is to consider car parking provision after checking with the local Planning office.

Also check neighbouring properties for signs of fairly recent conversions to use as a `precedent'. Houses with a deeper 2 storey back addition are particularly useful and easier to satisfy planning criteria regarding minimum room sizes (e.g. Parker Morris standards if applicable in your local area).

I hope some of this helps. John Lidstone spcplans@aol.com

Hi! I've read the Thread and found the hints and tips useful.

I am also starting out to convert a traditional 3 bed semi (circa 1939) to two flats.

However the main purpose is to provide two separate units for family members and not necessarily for profit - but with a long term aim to let once (if!) the family members move on

Regards Roger arogerg@hotmail.com

The house next door to my student house in Eastbourne has been made into three flats.The developer has had to provide provision for the storage of bicycles!

Just read all thr messages and curious as to the costing to convert a mid terrace into two flats. A local builder has quoted 30-40K, I am gob smacked, bearing in mind the costings Alex M has incurred. All neighbours on the road already have their house converted, currently we're the only 'house' remaining. My question is - can it (please) be done for up to 10K??? I had considered soundprooofing/preparing first floor flat (for me) then leaving the grounf floor for a developer to buy to further develope (obviously this is reflected in the price).... Does the above sound resonable, please?

hi Just wondering if anyone actually managed to convert their house to 2 flats and what the problems and costs were. Im looking to do the same. Thanks Sly.

I recently converted the basement into a granny flat and got the work certified with Building Control. At the time I got the gas and electric split and have seperate meters. I am now considering selling the flat and have applied for retrospective Planning Permission. What is the next step after that? Do I need to have plans drawn up by an architect/surveyor? Do I need plans of the whole house or just the flat? Do I need to have deeds drawn up by a solicitor? What paperwork do I need to file with the Land Registry? Any advice as to how to proceed in the most econimical fashion would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Patrick Ruane patrickruane@hotmail.co.uk

I am seriously thinking about converting my 3 bedroom mid terrace house into 2 flats.

Where do I start? I know that I will need to gain the relevant Statutory Approvals such as Building Control & Planning Permission. However I have been told that I will need to engage the services of an Acoustic Engineer to carry out a sound test and provide a specification for the sound proofing? What about fire precautions such as fire check doors, smoke detectors? Aslo are there a minimum sizes for the rooms (dining, bedroom & bathroom)?

Any help would be much appreciated. Email me: bas_agent@blueyonder.co.uk

Thanks

Paul

Paul

If you speak to your local council planning/building control as a first point of call, they will let you know what they would want to see and if they would give approvals. Accoustic engineers can cost quite a lot of money depending on where you are (been quoted £400 per unit).

On a project I'm involved with the council have insisted on high quality fire protection (double boarding & auto door closers), insulation and soundproofing (lowered ceilings on the ground floor had to be independant of structure), which added some £15K to the costs.

I run a project management company and work closely with a really good builder, if we can help call me.

mccallum_bill@hotmail.com 01642 819399 07944 563135

Bill McCallum Managing Director McCallum BDF Limited.

Hello I am looking to buy a 2 bedroom semi detached house with view to convert to 2 flats to sell. It as potential for extension to the sides with parking space. I am wondering if anyone has an outline or plan of the possible costing and what needs to done to convert. Could a bank loan be possible to fund this project since I am not planning to sell my house? If any one can help it would be much appreciated. Thanks Rebecca Coventon : janani?fsmail.net

Hello I am looking to buy a 2 bedroom semi detached house with view to convert to 2 flats to sell. It as potential for extension to the sides with parking space. I am wondering if anyone has an outline or plan of the possible costing and what needs to done to convert. Could a bank loan be possible to fund this project since I am not planning to sell my house? If any one can help it would be much appreciated. Thanks Rebecca Coventon : janani@fsmail.net

My dad is about to purchase a 3 bedroomed end terrace property with the intention of converting into 2 1 bedroomed flats. I am acting as 'project manager'. I have to prepare a costings schedule for the bank - but it is really dificult to get an idea of how much it is going to cost for the general building works side of things. I got a quote off a 'good builder' who quoted me £65k just for basic structural work! This seemed far too high to me. I have a figure of £40k for the entire conversion - can anyone advise if this sounds realistic?

How can anyone advise you without seeing it, example, i did just what your doing and my total costs were around 15K... I was lucky that i had a down stairs toilet and outhouse, so i made this into a shower room and toilet and just bricked up both outside doors and put a window in and then put an internal door in from the kitchen. Then my sounds and fire i actually put a new ceiling in to cambat this so my sound went above my new ceiling and my fire was just simply fire boards overlayed ontop of the sound boards. i Also had to brick up a downstairs door leading to upstairs. Then i had to put fire doors in upstairs.

Off course not forgetting the electricity split and new supply and also heating systen split and new gas supply fitted so both flats have gas central heating.

Most splits/conversions do not require any structual work, however all depends on the property.

Alex M

Alex,

A very interesting post. Im currently considering the same myself with a 3 bed terraced which has an existing downstairs bathroom.

Was your cost of 15K using builders or DIY? What local authority/council permissions need you need? Do you need a solicitor to change deeds as you now have 2 flats instead of one house?

m.d.fletcher@ntlworld.com

Thanks

Mark F.

Hi Mark, i did use builders, you do not need to change the deeds, unless you intend to sell a single flat. They are both ok and legal on one deed and still mortgagable has a whole unit.

You will need planing consent and then building regs. You should not have any problems getting them approved. Sounds like your half way there with the outside toilet, your main work is going to be the electrics, central heating and sound insulation.

example 2k electrics,, 2k plumbing,, 6k sound insulation (fitted) 1k upsatirs kitchen, making good downstairs outhouses 2k,, 300 upstairs firedoors. painting throughout 1k...

I was lucky the one i did had upstairs toilet and bathroom, i converted the bthroom into a kitchen and left the toilet as it was as it was seperate to the bathroom, i installed a shower above the stairs, in that little closet. I made the outside toilet and coal room into a toilet and shower room.

Alex Mehrban www.oakhillmortgages.co.uk

Hi Am also about to convert a 5 bed semi into 2 flats and wondered if anyone had any advice on fire and sound proofing the party wall?

Hi there, the party wall will need to be sound proofed only, however the sounds proof also acts as the fireproof. I had to sound proof the stairs of mine as they went through the downstairs livingroom and bedroom and we just used the same solution as we did on the ceiling and did it the same way. 2" wooden battens with sound insulation slabs inbetween the battens and then the sound proofing board ontop of this, then i also applied the fireproof plaster board to give it that extra on the sound as its cheap to buy and i did not want to fail my test, normal plasterboard would of been ok.

However, saying all the above not all building control inspectors will insist on the party wall been sound proofed it is really down to the inspector, i was asked to do it but did not have to.

the sound tester will do 8 test in all, 4 airbourne and 4 inpact. they only measure bedrooms and livingrooms, so 2 tests in each room they do not test the landing or kitchens, howver noise can travel and if you fail the test it's another £1,000.

existing party walls do not need to be sound proofed or fire proofed, look at the regs.

Alex, you are a mine of information, it has really helped me reading all of your replies. I am just about to apply for planning to convert a three storey mid terrace into 3 1 bed flats. However fire regs worry me! i've read on this forum that 2 means of escapes are required for each flat which on a 2 storey seems fairly easy to organise,i have no idea what is required for the third level....a firemans pole perhaps! i dont think my council will let me put in outside steps.....any suggestions would be welcome. cheers Lou

Hi Louise,

first of all, ref to fire escapes sometimes a fire escape window can be fine, with smoke alarms wired up to the mains so tenants have plenty of time to get out.

The fire escape, really does depend on your layout though and its best to get the building control inspector out so that they can advise you.

Sometimes if it will fit in then it will be stairs made from steel and bolted to the top floor from the outside and you would have to put a door in so that escape can be made. But it really does depend on layout.

Dont forget one escape can be the stairs the other can be a fire escape window, all depends on the building control.

Hopefully ive helped a little.

Thank you for your kind words

Alex M

www.oakhillmortgages.co.uk

Thanks Alex,I suppose i shall have to wait and see what my architect comes up with. Do you know if current fire regs are available on line to view. Many thanks Lou

Hi Folks,

Just want to say that this thread is very informative.

Now I'm a new developer, and want to convert a 3 bed semi into 2 flats, possibly 2 bed downstairs and 1 bed upstairs.

Now whilst the cost factors have been addressed in the above posts, one thing that doesn't really get covered is the right path to follow so that when one eventually sells the property, the profits can be maximised without having to pay extortionate levels of taxes or other fees.

Now, my intention is to convert the 3 bed semi into flats, possibly live in 1 for a few years and rent the other, but eventually, say in 4 years time, sell both units to maximise profit.

Would appreciate any advice one this.

Thanks in advance.

Hi there Marco,

Maximimising profits, well we are all into that my friend however there is no easy route. If you live in the down stairs flat then you will sell this tax free as its your home, You could then move into upstairs and live there for a a few years then sell this again no tax to pay as your selling your home.

Thats the best i can do mate, 0 tax to pay.

Alex M www.oakhillmortgages.co.uk

;-) Thanks Alex.

OK, so how do I prove I am living there, will it be determined by the name on the council tax bill or is it determined other ways?

Please advice.

Thanks,

right suppose im putting my neck on the line here, if you live there for over one year as your main residence then there is no tax to pay, however this could be disputed as you are trying to avoid tax.However, when you sell you will be selling your residential home. You have nothing to declare.

Now listen carefull, lets assume you were selling as an investment home, ok, and you did not declare your taxes. Well i very much doubt the tax man would find out and come chasing you. Now im not saying avoid tax im merley saying how it is, i know many a invester who has sold and declared nothing as it's upto you to be honest.

Alex M www.oakhillmortgages.co.uk

Thanks Alex,

OK, now when converting an average 3 bed semi, the upstairs is a simple conversion, smallest room usually becoming the kitchen, and the others are already there.

How is the issue of the downstairs bathroom handled? I know it will vary from house to house, hence why I said, 'average'.

Is there a regulation to do with the kitchen and bathroom being too close to each other, or not directly leading from one to the other?

Thanks,

BTW, I do pay taxes! But was looking for legal loopholes I could happily jump through!

Hi My husband and I are thinking of buying a 4 bedroom 3 Reception room mid terrace house and converting this into a 2 bedroom ground floor flat and a 1 bedroom first floor flat. There are enough rooms in the house to convert but we do not have a clue where to start. Can anybody help us by giving us some advice 1st steps to take etc. Thanks

Hi, I'm looking for help - have no idea where to start. I have a 4 bedroom terraced house with back garden. It is quite wide as we have an integrated garage (think it's called that). The house is 250 years old and has no front garden - directly on the pavement. My husband and I were thinking of dividing it into 2, ie side by side, and not a flat upstairs and a flat downstairs if that makes sense. We could keep the kitchen exactly as it is and make the garage the living room, and convert the 2 bedrooms above it to 2 beds and a bathroom????? Not sure what to do with the garden, as I wouldn't really want to share it.

The idea is to live in one half, with the garden as we have 2 young children, and either sell, or let the one we convert to pay off our current mortgage.

If anyone has any ideas who we could contact to see if this building work could be done I would be really grateful. I also have no idea how much it would cost and how long it would take etc. Thanks to anyone who might reply.

Jenny

Hi Jenifer, there, best bet is to contact a local arcitect, he will pop out and see you and advise if this is possible and may make some recommendations. All this is normally free.

Ref to your garden you could do this how you wanted, if you wanted to keep the garden then that would be ok. Its entirely up to you what you sell.

Hi Lesley, if i was you i'd contact the local planing office to see what the likley hood of planing been approved, then i'd contact a local arcitect to draw and submit plans.

well have had my plans drawn up and been and spoken to the duty planning officer who kindly informed me that if planning for my 3 storey house was allowed to be converted to 3 seperate flats a fee for god knows what would be required. probably to the tune of £17,000.....can this be right? does anyone know about this....i was outraged! If anybody thinks you might make a bit of profit they all want some! Any advise please Lou

Sounds a bit steep Lou, id ask them for a full breakdown of costs, ive never come across this before, as all they do is make stipulations and check the work has been done within the regs.

Hi, I was hoping someone could also help me. I'm just starting my ongoing plan and currently in the research stages. The information above is great and answered alot of my questions already.

I seem to have hit a wall and wondered how i can get around it.

I have a main residence but also have an additional flat with a buy to let mortgage. My mortgage co have said your not allowed to change the property into two dwellings.

Any info would be great.

Also if i went ahead and did it anyway, what and when would there be repecutions.

Also leases what are the best options and how?

You assistance, would be most appreciated.

Charisse

Your mortgage company are right as the project could affect there security, however how will they know?

There would be no repecutions, when the project is done then you simply refinance the property's with another lender.

you can go for freehold for the down stairs and leasehold for upstairs.

Thats it in a nut shell, 1st thing is contact local architect for idea's and then if its viable have him draw and submit the plans to the council.

Its not cheap by the way, its very expensive and very head banging stuff, do the project properly you will need to split, electricity (also new supply in) gas (also new supply in) water. If the flats have there own entrance then you can split gas if not and they share the same doot then then Transco will not put another supply in, so be carfull as this can trip you up.

Thanks Alex

Sorry i didn't make sense in some of my previous question. I'm not converting a flat but a 3 bed semi or end. But your answer re leases and mortgage.

When you apply to register both address, would my mortgage co be informed?

How much should i expect a full conversion to cost?

Interested to know how many successful conversions you have been involved in, and weather you have made substantial profits.

I'm 25 and this would be my forth property, but instead of just doing buy to lets i wanted to make big cash quick.

charisse_thomas@hotmail.com Charisse

Hi Charisse. first of all i'd like to say well done, your on your fourth proeprty and only 25 thats pretty amazing and wow! you got a life time ahead fo you yet so destined for big things. im only 38 :(

Mortgage company will not be notified at all. And anyway at this stage you will be re-mortgaging away from them.

How much, well this depends on your existing layout and weather your lucky i guess as some houses are set up for easy conversion. All i had to do was make 2 outhouses into one, block the door up, put a window in and put a door in from the inside from kitchen to bathroom and there was already an outside toilet which was ok. so that was my downstairs bathroom done. Upsatirs bathrrom i converted to a kitchen and put an onsuite in the bedroom.

Both flats have there own door and entrance. Think it cost me around 20K and that was the simple conversion you could get with minimal building work and i can get very cheap labour. Rememeber new gas and electric supply almost 2K new electrics 2K new plumbing 3K. Sound proofing materails 4K new kitchen 1K. thats 12K b4 labour and conversion of outside outhouses to bathroom.

ive done 1 conversion and have renovated 5 houses and renovated one myself, not easy but good fun.

Currently i have 21 houses all in good arears of wealth and very little owed on them, i have a different strategy to most.

with ref to splitting a house into flats yes you could make some good profits, but do your home work first. Your looking to buy a place that will convert with minimum building work. Ill possibly be doing another next year as i have a house mortgage free that is perfect for conversion.

If you ever need to have a chat feel free to give me a call.

Alex www.oakhillmortgages.co.uk 0800 019 22 55

Hi, just wanted to say thanks to Alex M for his help. Sorry for the delay but I forgot the website and my password!!!! Jenny

hi thinking of converting my three bed end of terrace

house into two, one bedroom flats.

could some one please advise me whether i need to contact

an architect first or get planning permision?.

Do i need proper drawings to get the planning permision?.

any feed back would be greatly appreciated.

Danny

Danny mate, please read this thread, as it tells you everything you need to know. and there are a few other threads in here of simular input.

LOL

God,Alex thats amazing 21 houses......and some almost paid off.......i must be the only person on this board barely breaking even!! Where am i going wrong...tell all how did you do it???

Lou

Hi Lou, how did i do it, i ask myself the same question mate and it's an amazing story from nothing to what i have now. You would not beleive the luck i had, sep 1999 i was skint no kidding you, i got a princess trust loan of £1,500 to start a mortgage business up, and i did not even have a mortgage, in fact barley knew what one was.

Anyway im not going to embarass myself anymore, i took my chances mate and worked hard, i worked two jobs, mortgages in the day and cabs at night to support things and then when the mortgages took off a gave the cabs up and as i made money a brought houses. ive never been lucky in life until sep 99 for some reason it all changed.

i have a certain way of working a portfollio, at first it was hard work as tenants moved out and i had to find new ones then i changed to DSS as this meant long term so less work and it worked for me, then i went into student lets which enabled me to buy higher but still make the profit. now i buy for polish and that as i can multi let, yes more work involved but profits are higher.

p.s. Lou, i know of a good house thats up for 75k and i can have it for around 60K it needs central heating thats it and would rent to a family of poles for around £450 to £550 and your mortgage payments would be around £270 interest only.

a good buy and only 10 minutes from the main town centre of Hanley.

why am i not buying it, cos im looking at buying a holiday home and dont want to tie my funds up in this project and i already have another purchase going through.

To anyone who can help me,

I just about to start converting a house into two flats but just received a quote from Thames Water for £2,880 to split the water. Does this sound right to you?

Also, can anyone tell me how much it will be to split the electrics?

My e-mail is georgina.boyle@blueyonder.co.uk.

I look forward to hearing from you soon. Michael Boyle

why have severn trent to split the water, have a plumber do it. u only need one mains coming in, have a plumber to split this its quite easy. reference to the electrics, depends really only cost me £1,200 has kept the orriginal cabling and they just split them. i own a house and next doors water pipe spurs of mine, this is true actually spurs of my pipe and into there house. so i know you can do this.

But i'd expect you to pay around 3k now as its all regulated.

Alex, i really take my hat off to you, i personally love a success story!...i'm hoping mine might be that one day! Would love to take you up on the house but am completing on a buy to let this week and then waiting for the planning decision on my house conversion...i cant spend anything at the moment as i need the readies for that. but many thanks for the offer. heres a business idea for you.....you should write up the conversion you did in detail include all costs and step by step guide of the process and sell it in a ebook.....i'd buy it and looking on here so would some of this lot! cheers Lou

Crikey this thread has been going on for a couple of years and it's a mine of information. Alex, I take my hat off to you; you've clearly been there and got the T-Shirt when it comes to flat conversions. I'm about to apply for planning permission on a three bed freehold terrace to turn into two one bed leasehold flats. The only grey area is the mortgage; I'm porting over my existing mortgage with Northern Rock to the new property but I've been told my other financial advisers that I will run into problems when i try to split the title, upon which the mortgage is registered against, into two seperate leasehold flats. Out of the interest, my mortgage is 70K, I'm purchasing the house for 155K, conversion works I guestimate to be 30K and combined resale should be 250K. OK, I understand the advice about not letting the mortgage company know about the conversion work but when it comes to the crunch, how I get past the hurdle of selling one flat at a time and transfering the mortgage or even remortgaging the second flat until it too is ready to be sold on?

One other point, how do I go about selling the freehold of the two flats? I understand this is itself could be worth some money...

Cheers

Michael

Hi All,

I'm new to the forum and find many helpful replies and posts. I am also considering converting a 3 bed end terraced with cellars and a large roof space. Alex, some advice please...When i bought the house 4 years ago i never bought the freehold and the solicitors i used went bust, is it easy to find out the course of action i need to go down to buy the freehold? this worries me slightly as if i dont own the freehold, i may not be granted permission to convert ? I'm firstly going to employ an artichect to find out what i can and can't get away with in terms of planning, i know i have to lower the cellar floor to to the foundations to allow decent headroom and then tank the cellar.my aim is to pay cash for the renovation and then once the 2 or hopefully 3 flats are complete remortgage out of them at 85 or 90 LTV rent them out and use the funds to purchase my next property at auction and do the same again. Does this seem to you a reasonable plan of action or do you think , its too complex for a first time developer to stomach.

rgds tony

Hi Michael, at the moment the property is on one deed ok and this will need to be split into 2 deeds at some stage. Your current lender will not allow for this as they have the charge on the whole property. So you have a solicitor to draw up 2 new deeds one leasehold and one freehold, unless he recommends different. You then remortgage each flat to a new lender using the same solicitor he will then register the new deeds with the land resistry and the new lenders will have there charge on the individual flats rather than the whole property.

Hi Tony, seems a great idea mate, with reference to who is the freeholder contact a the land registry i think they will hold this information, however as there is no financial gain for the freeholder i'd be amazed if he has updated his details so i don't think you will be able to locate him or them, at least this seems to be the case with a lot of them, this will not mean you cannot buy the freehold, new laws came into affect recently which gave leaseholders the right to purchase the freehold, so contact a solicitor.

Make sure you use a good architect as some do not have a clew, ive used one in the past and he was an idiot, i knew more than him, the second one i used was ok but very slow.

all the best

Alex

www.oakhillmortgages.co.uk

Hi all

An interesting thread.

I'm a conveyancer specialising in this type of work.

Don't forget to speak to your conveyancer as soon as possible. He will advise you about management structures and arrangements, lease terms and the documents a lender will want to see.

I always like, when I can to view the property with the plans to make sure that the whole scheme works from a legal pint of view.

If you do this, you'll avoid an expensive variation later.

Check out my website in a few weeks at www.homeconveyancer.co.uk

Peter Watkin

Hi all,

Im new to the business and thinking to convert a 3-bed house into 2 one-bed flats. Found massive amount of useful info here – more effective than trying to get it from official sources. :) Got one question though and hope there is enough experience on the forum to help me. Planning permission told me that when I convert an old property, each new unit should be no less than 100m2. Looking at recently converted flats or at potential houses for conversion I can’t see it possible. The existing flats are not even close to 100m2! Say, living room 20m2, bedroom 15m2, kitchen 10m2, bathroom 7m2, staircase 5m2. These are good sizes, but it only gives 57m2. It drives me mad. Where do I go wrong? Planning permission clearly states it should be 100m2 each unit. Can someone please advise on this? Dasha

Hi Dasha, strange question this one mate, and it does not seem right, the new flats they build today are a lot smaller than thats, so i'd say it's either something that you had read which is not relevant to your scheme or someone has given you wrong advise...

Consult a architect, asap. Reason been you will need one anyway to draw your plans so might as well get one now as its saves time and money, may cost a site survey at the most. £120

I cant stress enough make sure you use a good architect as some are total rubbish.

Thank you, Alex. It's nice to know you find it not right as you seem to know a lot about this business. I found it very strange as well, as many people are working on conversions and i haven't heard this problem before. However I've spoken twice to Planning permission and they clearly indicated this 100m2 rule. Will follow your advise and get architect involved.

Dasha

Hello Alex, Thanks for the great site its been really helpfull. I have a detached house right next to the sea, it needs lots of upgrading work. I have been granted planning to convert into two semis. The problem is I dont have any finace to do the work which is quite a bit. whats my best course of action, can i sell as it stands if i put a dividing wall in, in other words no seperate water, gas electric and it will require a toilet mains sewerage. it has a large gardens front and rear. My mortgage has just doubled and i really need guidance on this, im a bit lost at momment. many thanks lynne otter_678@fsmail.net

You could not do as you suggest, read this thread as this will tell you what you can do. Now you have a few options here, sell to a developer with your planing permission to convert and you will get more for your house ok.

Or you can re-mortagge get the funds out and do the converstion yourself.

Gas, Electrics and water would need to be split and so would the title deeds at the end. read the thread it tells you about the splitting and splitting title deeds.

Hopefully ive helped you.

you can share the existing toilet mains and a clever architect can plan all this so that minimum money is spent and minimum works made, so agin make sure you use a clever architect.

My first architect was an idiot and did not want to use the existing toilet outside as he feared it would not work, like hey go and test it, anyway i sacked him draw my own plans got a new architect to finalise them and bingo.

I’m in a bit of bother with my snobby council! Can anyone advise on the following?

1. is it illegal to have two kitchens in a single dwelling?

2. if the council has set minimum size requirements before you can convert into two flats, eg. say the property has to be 120 sqm, then you have lawfully extended your property to meet this requirement, must the extension size also be counted to determine the overall size of the property?

i ask because my property not technically two flats, but the council think it is. plus i need to know if it is worth putting in another pp for conversion of two flats, cos now my property meets the minimum size requirements although i need to know if extensions are included?

thanks folks, urgent assistance required, since enforcement order on its way....

No defo not illegal to have 2 kitchens ive never come acros this size thing, ive seen very small small flats which would defo be under the minimum.

Hi just looking at some of the requirments you guys have specified for minimum flat sizes.... are you sure you are not getting mixed up with meters/feet. Minimum requirments are normally 100-120 sq feet. Lou

Hi hoping someone will be able to help me.. I have a 3 bed mid terrace I am currently waiting for a decision to be made on the planning permission to allow me to turn it into 2x 1 bed flats I currently own it with my partner we are not married currently but due to be in april 08. I wondered if any one knew the sort of tax that we would be liable to pay on the sell of the flats or if you have any suggestions on the best way to go about it.

Dasha & Luck Jan Could it be that the 100sqm is the minimum starting size for a house before conversion will be considered by your council rather than size of newly converte flat,I know some councils use rules similar to this. I reckon someon from your council has got into a bit of a muddle.

Jan Often extensions cannot be taken into account, it is the original build size of the house that counts, unfortunately loft conversions cannot be taken into account either. Some councils will be a little flexible on these figures. Would be interested to know how you get on regarding this. Good luck

Hi Lousise, this really is an accountants questions however there should be less tax to pay if the property is owned jointly, reason been you are both entitled to £8,200 per annum. please check following link. http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/leaflets/cgtfs1.htm#b1

if the property only has one name on it then on one CGT releif can be applied, this is why married couple buy jointly as they get double the CGT. Its quite a loop hole, should only be applied once to an a single asset. however you both own the assett and your both entitled to CGT so its fair game.

alex M

Sorry you CGT allowance is £9,200 and double if jointly owned and not already claimed. Inland revenue site is out of date.

Thanks Alex that sounds alot better then the different things I have heard about how it is taxed. Also I mentioned I was not married yet and I read something like if you both own property before you are married (so I put one flat in my name the other in my partners before we get married) then once we have tied the knot we both live in one and sell the other and would not be liable for any CGT...have I understood that incorrectly it is currently our main residence in both our names I dont know if that changes anything.

Got the answer regarding 100m2 from the architect. Steve is right, 100sqm is the minimum starting size for a house before conversion. Good news.

Your right with that and your main residence in both names is good, so your partner lives in the other flat which he owns and sells tax free has this is his residential home.

Thankyou for the advice Alex

Alex one more question im currently in a fixed 5 year mortgage is there any possibility they would re mortgage one of the flats as I would be penalised for leaving before the 5 years I have currently only had the mortgage for just over a year or would that get me into trouble for converting the house in some way

Hi Louise, most mortgages are portable so you can move them onto another property redemption free.

Or some lenders will give you 3 to 6 months to find another property to put the mortgage onto.

If your mortgage is on the property your converting then best you convert the property as you were planning, then get a solicitor to write up a set of deeds, so basically evreything is ready.

Then inform your existing lender that you have split the property into 2 flats fully council approved and that you have split all utility's and that your solicitor has also prepared a new set of deeds possibly top flat leasehold and bottom flat can have the freehold however makes no diference as long as the top flat is not freehold as only a very limited amount of lenders do freehold flats above a flat (kinda flying freehold). With this they will possibly want to revalue both flats and im sure they will then re-jig the loan to suite so that you don't pay any penalty's.

It is very important that you get the freehold or leashold right, otherwise this may limit your options later on. I.E flyinh free holds are very hard to sell as only one lender Bank of Scotland do them.

If you going to just rent them, then just leave them as they are don't waste your money. My flats are fully done and approved and everything split, however i still have the orriginal mortgage on them, infact ive just locked in for 5 years fixed. I have no intensions of selling so do not need to go to the expense of splitting the deeds. ill do this when i sell, however if i was to sell them to an invester he would not be detered by the fact there on one deed and not split.

p.s. i brought 2 flats with no council approvals, i could not get a mortgage on them so i paid cash as the deal was to good to say no, then once i'd got them i removed the upstairs bathroom then mortgaged them as one unit.

hi Alex heres my story ,i co own a 3bed house with brother want to do the 2 flat conversion its ideal for this i think ,we have land attached and thinking of selling with planning for the flat conversion we have been quoted 70k if planning in place however about half of this land is only owned with possesionary ownership and becomes ours on 26 7 07 we have been offered 48k by a prop developer is this a good price or is he trying his luck what sort of price would you settle on , i want to get moving on flats ,sell mine and start a new carrear buying and selling houses thankyou , p/s great site good informative reading mate

Hi Nigel,

Is it a good price? well depnds what you can build on it and what the council will allow. Now if they could knock the orriginal house down and build a block of flats then mega bucks. So be very careful, my advise would be to talk to either the council or a very good architect and they may advise you on your best option and what may be allowed.

I tried to buy a house 4 years ago it was a nice house and needing renovating and had a fair bit of land to it, however i was screwed over and guess what they knocked it down and built 6 houses on the land.

So be careful as you could be missing something here. Get a good architect to explore all avenues as to maximise your profit potential.

Thanks Alex much appreciated for all of your advice.

Hi Alex its Nigel here again thanks for your advice on the last matter,its a dog eat dog business by the sound of it and a little bit of knowledge is not always a good thing,if i give you the size of the plot could you give me a ball park figure of its worth with planning and without planning, if this is posible i would have something to go on .The plot is 9mtrs by 12mtrs flat ground with access by a semi private lane any help would be appreciated just a ball park figure , dont know if there is a price per foot rough guid for this type of thing onece again fankyou for your reply

Could anyone tell me if I need to provide additional parking spaces if I convert a terrace house from 2 flats to 3? I have 2 parking spaces currently (1 for each flat). I am thinking of converting the attached unused garage to a duplex converting the flat roof to pitched to create a bedroom and bathroom. (lounge and kitchen to be created by converting gargage area)

Carole,If you were required to provide parking for the original conversion(that is if you did it rather than buying already converted)it's likely you will indeed need parking(ask your council). I have been assisting someone taking on a project similar to yours, local council was originally un-enthusiastic, even claiming that development was too cramped due to narrow accomadation.Transpired they could not use this as a reason for refusal as it is total floor spae that counts.Would be interested to know how you get on.

Alex, Tosh here; You are a gem mate, I am so glad I read into this thread... If I had any doubts in taking on the challenge of a house coverversion, you have definitely dispelled my fears. I will be in touch shortly.

Tosh (football agent)

http://www.insidetips.co.uk

Hello Alex can you give me any information about costings for electric gas and water meters. We are currently planning conversion of our house into five units. Realise we have to apply for costings but just need a rough estimate. Thanks

I have one question which I dont thing was answered here. If I convert into two flats and sell them both off. what happens to repairs to shared areas ie roof,drives,structure. Do you sell that to one flat holder as the freeholder? and the other flat as leashold?

Hi there, in the deeds you will make the owner of the upstairs flat responsible for all repairs to roof and guttering, basically anything attached to it.

Downstairs falt as freehold, upstairs as leasehold.

Hi Carol, converting your house into 5 units?, must be some house. basically unless each flat has its own entrance then you cant split the gas ok. so storage heaters would have to be used, regards costings for electricty supply thats does all depend on few things, however expect to pay around £850 per new connection plus rewire of each flat id say around £1200.

This forum is great - We are just considering selling our current end of terrace and buying a 5 bed house with our son and daughter. we would like to convert this to a 3 bed flat upstairs - one bed with en-suite located beside existing bathroom. There are two double bedrooms that we would convert to Kitchen and Lounge and the other two bedrooms are one large double and one box room.

Downstairs there is a Shower Room which we plan to open up as access into the back of existing Garage - which we would convert to one bedroom and move the shower room to back of the garage. The Dual Aspect lounge we would divide so that we had the front room as a second bedroom. This leaves the existing Kitchen which is a good size and needs no immediate work and back of dual aspect lounge and exsiting breakfast room as large Lounge dining room.

We plan to live as a family in the house while we get building regs and get the conversion done. The entrance lends itself to having two separate entrances and has driveway for 4 to 5 cars easily. We were planning to buy the property and then start the investigations into building regs and over the course of a year split it into two. Would you advise getting all the planning done before we commit to buyiny? Eventually our son and daughter would want to sell the upstairs to finance their own single properties. We are not majorly into DIY - have fitted a kitchen and basic decorating so will need to employ builder etc. Does 40k for move and conversion as described above seem unrealistically low?

i would say 40K could do it, depends really as i have builders and joiners who work for a day rate of £100 so this makes the job cheaper whereas some want to quote for the work this can be costly. There are lots of things you need to consider first.

1) electrics will need splitting and 2 new connection for the other flats. 2) 2 new gas connections for the 2 new flats personally unless you go with storage heaters.

40K should do it easy

Hello all, My question is slightly different so please bear with me. I have bought a commercial property(a small shop) which has a flat above it. now my initial thought was to rent the flat and cover the mortgage but can i split the deeds and just sell it as a one bed flat, and keep the shop? the front door would be communual, with a door off the hallway to the shop entrance and a seperate one for the flat. i will have an architect draw some plans but just need a 'heads up' as to the possibilites available, and any implications involved. any advice is greatly appreciated. Jamie M

i am converting a former nursing home into a 4 bed house and 2 2 bed flats. There is no major building work just fitting 2 kitchens and souundproofing and blocking up party wall. The problem is the utilities. I intend renting out flats nad eventually will sell. They are one above the other each with own entrance ,parking and garden. The original house has a massive gas boiler heating at the moment the whole house. Wales and West are charging £4000 to put in 2 new gas supplies-we were going for 3 new combi boilers-we have looped one electric supply to ground floor flat at a cost of £220 but this will not support storage heaters-and a new electric supply to upstairs is £2000. We have been told we need 2 new metered water supplies to flats. Should we forget gas in flats. any suggestions with other utilities.

you dont need new water supplies a plumber can creat 3 t's at the stop tap for each residence, then the water board will install water metres. ive just done that no problems.

if i were you id also make the flats totally independent from each other so id split the electrics fully, id also install gas supplies and go with your 3 combies and gas cetral heating.

Another thought is if you rewire the flats then this will enable you to go with storage heaters, so maybe cheaper.

however gas is cheaper and they are easier to rent ans sell with gas cetral heating.

Remember you can do this on the cheap and then in the long run it will come back and bite you or you can do the job right and then you know there properly done.

Thanks Alex. At last some good advise. I wish I had found this thread sooner. May I ask about sound proofing We are taking down the ceiling putting 100mm sound quilt between the joists , soundbreakers to joists and 2 layers of plasterboard fixed to them. Is this enough to pass the sound test do you think . Do I need to put anything on floor in first floor flat-Ive seen acoustilay

STOP!!!, you do not need to take your existing ceiling down very bad idea, this will double your work and double costs. Your sound breakers attach to the joist, your existing ceiling can stay as it is as it acts as extra sound proofing. " layers of plasterboard instead of sound boards slabs? well i cant say if the 2 layers of plasterboard will do it, i was told that it would however i was not risking it so i used the sound boards, very expensive. I want you to think here, you have just done the job using 2 layers of plasterboard and your noise test fails. What you going do now?

You dont need anything on upper flat floor its a con to get you buying more stuff.

Having said all that i do think 2 layers of plaster board will work however id change this to one layer of fireboard and then one layer of plasterboard overlapping.

No need to take existing ceiling down. Make sure there are no gaps around the ceiling and no gapps in the upstairs floorboards.

P.S some building control inspectors may insist on proper sound proofing boards so please check this out before hand.

have just been granted planning and regs to convert my mothers three bed semi into a one bed ground floor flat(for her to live in) and a three bed maisonette(to sell). we were wondering what the best way to limit the tax or capital gains would be, as it is her only residence can she just move into the ground floor flat and sell off the top one, she has lived in the house for twenty years. I am funding the planning and the build so would need to take out my outlay. Any way to reduce the tax would be welcomed,thanks

im not an accountant but im sure there is no tax to pay as your mum is selling her own home, your own property is normally sold tax free. she then moves into the down stairs flat. simple.

consult an accountant they will not charge you for such a simple answer, im quite sure no tax will be due.

thank you for that alex, this thread is very informative,my architect has specified acoustilay on the entire first floor and to remove the ground floor ceilings and fix 2"joists,soundbars to joist,two sheets plasterboard to soundbars, is this needed or is he just covering himself if the sound test fails, i have read on this forum that it is one or the other(acoustilay or remove ceilings and fix bars and extra plasterboard).

Tony

Its not always essential to do all this, it may be that two layers of plasterboard might be enough to pass the sound test...this has been the case in a couple of projects we have worked on recently.

Hello there, I found your forum by chance and would like to thank everyone for all their really helpful information, especially Alex.

We are in the process of requesting planning permission to turn our three storey 210 sq m semi detached Victorian house into a one bed semi basement flat with a three bed, two storey house/maisonette on top. The only hitch is that we don't have any parking space. The house dates from the 1860s and is one of the oldest in the area and is also in a conservation area. Unfortunately, the road has been built a little too close to the house so the front garden is barely big enough to create a single parking space. Does anyone know if parking is essential in order to obtain planning permission? Also is it possible to offset parking i.e. by making a contribution toward another scheme's parking facility? Or would providing bicycle stands help at all? We are located 10 minutes away from the train station, 1 minute from bus stops and 3 minutes from the High Street and local amenities, so not having a vehicle wouldn't be an issue as we have excellent transport link. There is also a council car park almost opposite the house and residential parking on the road to the side. Any help or advice on how to present this little problem in a favourable light to the planning department would be much appreciated....

As we are now a nation trying to promote green issues and all that, when a house is close to a train station and bus stops and depending on your area will depend on if parking is an issue or not. It really is down to the local council or even Bristol which is where the appeals are heard. You will have to demonstrate that you are promoting the project from a different angle i.e. trying to discourage people from having a car. They dont need a car as the transport links are very good. you might have a good chance on this issue. Good luck

tony caslin, to do the job properly with a definate pass you need sound boards, however i have now heard it a few times that 2 sheets of plasterboard will do. They may do, however a fail and it could cost you a lot more than doing the job right. I would also imaging that if you are going with 2 sheets of plasterboard then acoustilay on the entire first floor will be needed. However no need whatsoever to remove the existing ceiling this has no benefit and infact offeres a little more sound protection by leaving it. I certainly left mine in.

Hi wondered if anyone can help. We are new to this and have found a lot of the information on this thread very interesting. We are considering purchasing a terrace and converting into 2 flats - just wondered whether there is anything you need to consider with the area of purchase such as if any other properties in that location have already been converted. Just a bit concerned about what might affect planning permission. Thank you.

Hi Chantelle, Welcome to LT.

The things that might affect your project are parking and if there are no converted flats within the area then this could have an affect. However these are concerns that the council brought up regards my own conversion. PARKING - TO MANY HOUSES CONVERTED TO FLATS - INCREASED NOISE - NIEGHBOUR OBJECTIONS, of cause none of them are proper reason to decline you and upon appeal you will have this overturned, assuming they decline you.

You need a good architect who has done this sort of thing before, he will draw and submit your plans.

thanks for all the advice so far, when we split the deeds we will create a leasehold for the maisonette and freehold for the ground floor flat, does the freehold have any kind of money value, do any companys have an interest in freeholds and what kind of value would this fetch?

Hi Everyone

I'm in the process of buying a 4 storey terrace house and

will

be turning into 2 2 bed flats,

What rate of VAT would I pay for materials/tradesman? I have

been told it's 5% is that correct?

Thanks a lot. Andrew

5%? err why 5%lol... vat is a flat rate of 17.5% no concessons unless its childrens clothes. Use a tradesman that is not VAT registered, not many are as they would hardly do any business. Obviously the big firms are vat registered.

As for materials again flat rate of 17.5%

Thanks Alex, I may have been missinformed? so turning 1 property into 2 dwellings makes no difference at all, I was also told that a new buld is vat free? Cheers

Dear Alex

I wish I had come across this forum a few months ago. I'm in the process of buying a 10 bed terrace house, which i intend on converting to 4 flats. I've never done this before and over the last few months I've had a pig of a job finding most of the info you've covered.

I wish there was a book of do's and don'ts.

Many thanks alex

Dan

Dear Alex

I wish I had come across this forum a few months ago. I'm in the process of buying a 10 bed terrace house, which i intend on converting to 4 flats. I've never done this before and over the last few months I've had a pig of a job finding most of the info you've covered.

I wish there was a book of do's and don'ts.

Many thanks alex

Dan

Hi, I own a 3 bed semi with an unusual layout. I have a long extended kitchen and running parallel to that is a converted garage with is divided into 2 rooms and a downstairs loo. I am a single mum of 3 sadly going through a divorce and find it hard to make ends meet so often wondered if it would be profitable to convert the kitchen and garage into a flat and sell it and my house together. The only money I could raise to do this would be 20k from an endowment policy. I mentioned my thoughts to a client who is a sucessful property developer and he came back with an offer of 20k above market value and he would convert the house into flats. The risk element for me is he wants me to find 1k to get planning permission which I cannot afford unless my mum lent it to me. Does this sound like the best way forward? Advice appreciated.

Hi Michelle,

Well if you do get planning accepted then i think your freind would have to raise his offer as it would then be worth a lot more.

Best advise i can give you is to either get the 1K and get planning approved then have the place revalued with the planning aproval for the proposed flats.

If you cant raise the 1K then why not find a willing invester who will stump up the 1K and the money for the proposed works, complete the project and then sell the flats and split profits 50/50. I for one maybe interested in that.

Hi All, I have just bought a very large basement flat and plan to convert it in to two dwellings. It is share of freehold, my question is how do I split the freehold? and can the other freeholders in the building oppose this?

hi alex u seem to be the main man here great advice i think u should write a book

have a question i converted my 4bed house into 2 bed flats only thing i didnt get planning permision now after 2 years the council has found out and wants it bak in single dwelling

a) if i apply for permision can i in the mean time leave them as two flats until a decission has been made

b) if not do i need to take doors off kitchen off etcc

Hi there, basically if you have tenants in then it a different ball game as the tennats will have an ast, so therefore makes its harder for the council. you would have to serve notice. The council should understand this as legally you cant get the tenants out, i assume you have only been paying one lot of council tax? .

Best bet is to get an accountant asap to draw up the plans quite straight forward really then submit your plans. You will get planning, a good council will be understanding and give you time, they will make you comply with noise and fire though.

I did the same as you by the way converted then got grassed up, by this time id split electrics, plumbing and had 2 bathrooms and 2 kitchens, but no tenants. the council were fine about it all and just asked me to apply for planing.

Apply straight away, do not remove any kitchens or extra bathrooms as it is not against any planning laws to have more than one kitchen or bathroom, no planning requiered for them.

leave your flats as they are and you can rent the down stairs flat out that would be legal. just make sure there are 2 means of escape front and back

Dear Alex,

I have the same idea as most people here in terms of planning to convert a single dwelling into two flats. I am trying to do a considerable amount research beforehand and have learnt a lot and I'm sorry to trouble you, but can't understand a definite way to go about soundproofing. I understand of course, that sound proofing needs to be in place toward the party walls and ceiling of the above flat where the lounge is designated and of that to all ceilings of the lower flat, but are you able to advise me of the following...

(1) Exactly what materials are required? (2) What is the step by step installation of such materials? (3) Does the sound proofing also account for fire protection? (4) In addition to question 3, would I need a hard wired smoke/fire alarm system to the above flat? (5) Would this need to be on a separate circuit?

I thank you in advance of your valued response.

Graham.

Hi alex thanks for your advice seriously man u need to write a book yes i have tennants in both flats everything gas,electric,water and utility bills all separate as well as council tax i would have gone through planning but they take so long so avoided it but like you someone probably grassed me up i have a vague idea that it might have been a two flat convertion in the past

a) is there anyway i could find that out cause the council would not tell me??

Cheers alex.

hi alex can you recomend any good architect???

cheers

Hi Graham,

Sound proofing does indeed incorperate fire protection 30 minutes i think and swome councils its 60 minutes, sound proofing defo gives you 60 minutes. Smoke allarm upstairs and downstairs required and must be wired up into your system, however you can just pinch a live of your lights as the alarm will be close to your lights anyway.

your architect will advice you as you defo need a set of plans drawn up.

Ref to sound proofing, read the thread, there are a few ways of tackling this, above the ceiling or below, you do not have to do existing party walls, just the ceiling and maybe the stair walls if they come through the middle of the down stairs flat.

You will need sound bars, sound slabs and sound boards, existing ceiling stays as it is you screw the sound bars into your joists then incert your sound slabs and then screw your sound boards into the sound bars obviously covering the sound slabs which should be tightly packed in.

Hi Ejaz,

If the place was already split into fla